Anyway, your writing is top notch, Vin. Keep up the articles and well crafted rebuttles.

Since moving to the midwest two years ago from So Cal I have had the opportunity to purchase raw milk from a closed herd (no new cows have been added from outside to eliminate disease). It is a small, local dairy and they have never had an outbreak of any kind that could contaminate their milk. I read in Nourishing Traditions that all the contaminated milk scares have been in “regular” dairies…and that the raw milk scare is pretty much a myth popularized by the milk politicians. I believe that to be true. But it is every person’s choice to believe what they want to believe.
I used to buy organic milk but the price was so high…more than gasoline (in Los Angeles). I feel lucky to be able to provide raw, local, food for my family. I feel amazing! My kids don’t have stomach aches, ear aches, etc. They love cream too! It’s all about balance isn’t it? A little raw whole milk goes a long way…you don’t have to drink a lot of it to feel full…

Thanks for this great article, I can’t wait to delve more into your site.

I know that there really is evidence (not just a claim of it so I can make my point) that high intake of saturated fats and cholesterol (from animals… including cows), is correlated with an increased risk of heart disease, and that these fats increase cholesterol.

This correlation is not universally accepted and there is evidence that opposes it. In fact, some research shoes an inverse relationship between saturated fat intake and heart disease as well as a lack of association between saturated fat intake or cholesterol levels on artery damage.

See references 23-35.

I haven’t found any studies showing that skim milk increases cholesterol more than raw whole milk.

Based on the references above, a more pertinent question is if such an outcome would even matter. Besides, the research that I’ve seen showing that whole milk has more of a potential to increase cholesterol than skim milk shows only a small difference, and in many cases, shows a decrease in cholesterol compared to baseline levels with whole milk merely causing slightly less of a reduction. However, in some cases, skim milk decreases HDL cholesterol more so than whole milk which is not desirable and also has less of a reducing effect on triglycerides.

Steinmetz KA, Childs MT, Stimson C, Kushi LH, McGovern PG, Potter JD, Yamanaka WK. “Effect of consumption of whole milk and skim milk on blood lipid profiles in healthy men.” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1994. 59:612-618.

Rossouw JE, Burger E, Van Der Vyver P, Ferreira JJ. “The effect of skim milk, yoghurt, and full cream milk on human serum lipids. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1981. 34:351-356.

You also failed to mention the risks of bacterial infection that accompany unpasteurized milk.

I discussed this in the article I linked to about pasteurization. Yes, there is a risk of infection with raw milk, but outbreaks have also originated from pasteurized milk.

You ironically made the statement “Although the amount of oxidized cholesterol in skim milk and reduced fat milk may be small, there’s really not much point in taking the risk.” You simply don’t know what this risk is, and you’re right, there is a very small amount of this oxidized cholesterol.

We do know what this risk is. There is plenty of evidence indicating that oxidized cholesterol is a significant risk for heart disease, and I think the evidence is much more convincing than the “strong” associations that have been made between saturated fat, serum cholesterol levels, and heart disease.
See references 16-22

I’d really like to know the evidence behind it– and that doesn’t include weak, spineless claims like “it’s unnatural” and “all the enzymes have been killed” and “you won’t get those vitamins that you need” and things like that. I’m open-minded about it, but I want to see real evidence.

Totally understandable, thank you for encouraging me to add more references to this article.

Based on the fact that butter, cream, and cheese tend to contain much less lactose, it sounds like you might be lactose intolerant. Although you might be able to tolerate milk with the use of lactase (the enzyme that digests lactose) or milk with the lactose already broken down (such as Lactaid), you’re probably better off not drinking milk anyway, especially if it’s conventionally produced and pasteurized.

If there is a problem with oxidized cholesterol in skim milk and if that problem outweighs the risk of increased fat, calorie, and cholesterol intake in whole milk (and the risk of infections with unpasteurized milk), I’d really like to know the evidence behind it– and that doesn’t include weak, spineless claims like “it’s unnatural” and “all the enzymes have been killed” and “you won’t get those vitamins that you need” and things like that. I’m open-minded about it, but I want to see real evidence.

Yes, there are certainly a lot of things to consider when choosing whether or not to drink milk. I don’t recommend soy milk, and if you’re considering it, I suggest reading The Whole Soy Story by Kaayla Daniel first. Almond milk and coconut milk are suitable alternatives, but even these come with considerations. Almond milk can potentially be high in phytates and enzyme inhibitors, and coconut milk is typically canned. Although most people don’t want to hear this, I think filtered water is by far the best thing to drink, especially since many people don’t drink enough of it and are chronically dehydrated.

I think it’s great that you enjoy making your own kefir, and I think it’s an excellent and natural source of probiotics. However, I’m not so sure about it compensating for the potentially detrimental effects that pasteurization and homogenization have on milk. I think the only true way to avoid these effects is to use raw milk, and that of course is a decision that you must make for yourself.

Personally, although I prefer to avoid both, I’d be more concerned about the detrimental effects of pasteurization than homogenization. In regard to skim milk, it’s important to consider that it’s often supplemented with milk powder which tends to contain small amounts of oxidized cholesterol. In effect, you’re trading one problem for another.

Since fat soluble vitamins are stored within fat, those that naturally exist in whole milk are removed during the production of skim milk. While they may be replaced through enrichment, the vitamins used are likely to be synthetic and of lesser quality than the original vitamins that existed in their natural and whole food form. Although the addition of fat from other sources such as coconut milk might facilitate their absorption, it’s still important to consider the difference in quality.

It’s convenient, and also a cheap source of food, along with homemade sourdough — milk and flour aren’t very expensive, and by preparing them by making them into kefir and sourdough, they’re much easier to digest and are, as far as I understand, much healthier than they would be otherwise (lactose/phytic acid/starches/gluten broken down, etc.). I can repeat all the science I’ve read about it, but in reality, I’m getting a lot less gas and am not feeling sluggish while eating these products, as I did when I was eating them in the commercial form that isn’t effectively pre-digested, and since my own body is telling me it’s doing better with these foods, I’m listening to that.

Of course, even if kefir is healthier than regular milk, for example, it doesn’t mean that it can’t do any harm. Commercial milk has many problems and I’m aware of those — I think kefir is the remedy for pasteurization, in that it re-introduces the enzymes necessary to break down milk, and makes it much easier to digest, but as for homogenization? I’m pretty sure that kefir breaks down the fat and cholesterol (you can check out “Dom’s Kefir” website to read more about this — I refer to that page often to refresh my memory on kefir, just as a little side note there XD)…but yeah, I don’t know about homogenization. The whole xanthine oxidase thing doesn’t sit well with me.

Pasteurized goat milk kefir should theoretically be the best option, since it’s naturally homogenized and the kefir would provide beneficial bacteria and yeasts to break down the milk for you. I think that would be the best alternative.

However, there’s only one place I can find pasteurized goat milk around here (I’d rather avoid the UHT goat milk because of the greater denaturing of the milk), and it’s $7.69 a half gallon. There’s no way I can afford to drink that on any kind of regular basis, and the same goes for raw milk.

So here’s my solution: make kefir with store-bought skim milk, preferably a brand that says it’s hormone-free, and then add coconut milk to that before you drink it. You can also make a mixed kefir by culturing the skim milk as well as the coconut milk, but I find that culturing both together makes the process go a little too fast because of the lowered milk content.

I’m not sure how well this would work, but I don’t see why coconut milk wouldn’t help with the absorption of the fat-soluble vitamins. Maybe the medium chain fatty acids don’t work like the long-chain fatty acids in relation to digestion and assimilation there, but I don’t have a degree in nutrition and I don’t really understand how the body works with these things — but the coconut milk fat seems like it’d be better to me than the homogenized milk fat.

Basically, I think it would be a lot better if we could at least have the option of buying regular grade A pasteurized goat milk, or pasteurized and non-homogenized cow milk. Same with raw honey — filtering and processing that is purely a cosmetic matter, and if it were more commercially available and became a lot cheaper, I think that would be great.

Food is getting so processed and manipulated these days, it’s like you have to do months of detective work just to make sure that what you’re eating isn’t going to hurt you in the long run. I think that’s really sad, and it’s already difficult for so many people to even pay for food in the first place — on top of that, you think you’re eating something that’s good for you and you start to feel sick, and don’t make the connection because you’re so used to hearing “this is loaded with calcium and vitamin A and vitamin D” and all that stuff. The problem isn’t completely that people don’t care about being healthy; it’s also that a lot of people don’t care about other people being healthy, and the pushing of modern processed and denatured foods that are blatantly bad for our health demonstrates that.

Humans are adaptive, though, and I’m sure somewhere down the road we can really get to using science and improvisation/creativity to our advantage to come out on top again. We already know that there’re problems with pasteurized and homogenized milk, but I think we’ll eventually figure out a way to make these things work to our advantage. After all, xanthine oxidase might not be good liposomally speaking, but look at liposomal sodium ascorbate you can make yourself with an ultrasonic cleaner — homogenization there is very useful, and I’ve even read studies comparing the efficacy of that to intravenous vitamin C. I think it would be equally foolish to ignore the advantages that science has to offer, and technology has definitely improved life in many ways. It’s worsened life in many ways, but there’s the double-edged sword — I think the key to this whole nutrition thing will be a balancing act, and combining tradition and science in order to make new traditions and keep humanity on the track to progress. Look at food dehydrators and juicers and things like that — ‘raw foodists’ will use these things that were never available in older times, and they aren’t traditional at all, but they certainly help.

Back to the main topic: I for one just want some answers on basic things like milk. The xanthine oxidase thing hasn’t been completely proven, to my knowledge, and I think that’s a problem — can we get some studies that definitely prove whether or not it causes arterial scarring/calcification? If they know that liposomal vitamin C is absorbed that directly, shouldn’t they be able to definitely tell what the story is with xanthine oxidase, which they’re saying theoretically works in the same way?

And if we get straight answers on that, why isn’t non-homogenized milk available? That’s not a safety issue; and maybe people would want to buy non-homogenized milk and the demand would greatly go up for that, if they publicized studies on xanthine oxidase? I’m currently hoping it isn’t as awful for you as it’s been theorized to be, but I’d rather have someone prove/disprove that it’s “rocket-fuel for cancer” and then take it from there. It’s frustrating that it’s so hard to get any clear answers on anything these days. Are you lying to me or not? That’s all I want to know — I don’t care about the ethics of people lying to each other, I just want people to be healthy. That’s all that matters; and maybe all this stuff is being perpetuated by people lying to one another because they’re afraid of what’ll happen to them (imagine the response to an article on xanthine oxidase if it were widely publicized after definitive clinical studies, given that someone eventually carried them out). I don’t even know what the stuff I’m eating might be doing to my body, and nobody really seems to care enough to research it and tell me and the other millions of people in the same position that I’m in. There’re too many lies and too much confusion in this world, seriously.

Well, I’m ranting now (I do that a lot), so I’ll stop here. But thank you for sharing this…my brain needed some morning exercise XD Shook the bugs out! I guess I’ll go have my potentially cancer-causing kefir made from commercial homogenized skim milk now (why does it say “homogenized” on skim milk? It has no fat….????)

-_- *sigh* someday we’ll have answers. Humans are adaptive — I’m convinced we’ll come out on top again, even if it takes some odd hundred years. Optimism is the best thing for our health, and it’s free too So maybe all this isn’t so bad after all.

I said I was going to stop there. But don’t get mad at me, it was the red dye in that Kool-Aid I had that’s making me so hyperactive!!!! Thanks again for sharing